Interview with Meredith B. Mitchell

Hero or Victim?
Meredith B. Mitchell, Ph.D.
Meredith B. Mitchell (1995)
Reviewed by Richard R. Blake for Reader Views (7/06)

Reader Views welcomes Meredith B. Mitchell, Ph.D., author of “Hero or Victim?” Dr. Mitchell is being interviewed by Juanita Watson, Assistant Editor of Reader Views.

Juanita:  Thanks for taking the time to talk with us today Dr. Mitchell.  Would you please tell us what your book “Hero or Victim?” is all about?

Dr. Mitchell:  The book is about the capacity human beings have to feel strong, effective, and good about ourselves.  It is about looking at our inner weaknesses with acceptance and discovering our inner strengths so we can overcome the obstacles that life invariably places in our paths.  The book also is about how we can live our lives in such a way that we feel deeply satisfied and contented with the decisions we make and the things we do.  It includes guidance to living a spiritual and moral life.

Juanita:  What inspired you to write your book?

Dr. Mitchell: My own inner struggles and personal analysis.  For me to transform from a disturbed, self-loathing individual to the truly happy person I am today took many years to discover the hero that lies within. 

Juanita:  Dr. Mitchell, would you explain to us what Jungian theory actually means to the layperson, and how it applies to the hero/victim personality?

Dr. Mitchell: According to Jung, we are born with all human potentiality.  Jung identified each element of potentiality as an archetype. And there are as many archetypes as there are possibilities for experience.  As we develop, the potentialities take conscious forms based on our experience with what they represent.  We contain archetypes enabling us to experience everything conceivable. Examples of common archetypes are mother, father, child, dog, ape, tree, chair, and window.  In other words, we are born with the potentiality to experience everything which humans are capable of experiencing. Everything! However, how we describe, understand, or interact with outer representations of the inner archetypes depends on our personal, conscious contacts with those objects.  Interactions with our actual mother and father, with other children and out own experiences as a child give personal (not universal) meaning to the terms mother, father and child.  Similarly, personal experiences of or with dogs, apes, trees, chairs, and windows determine how the archetype is represented in our awareness for each of us individually.  Culture, society, and religion can also contribute to the way in which an archetype is represented in our consciousness.

Among all these archetypes are those of the hero and victim, or victimized child.  Briefly, the hero is that part of us which takes responsibility for one’s own behavior, confronts each issue in life with courage and without complaint, and is motivated by that which moves us to express our wholeness as a moral human being, whether we describe the motivating force as our destiny, our soul, or God’s will.  The victim, however, is an aspect of the inner child we all have within us as well.  This is the part of us that feels imposed upon, complains, lays blame (on oneself or others), and mainly acts out of fear – fear of rejection, reprisal, punishment, or some other fantasied negative reaction of others.  My book has a table summarizing the characteristics of both the hero and victim we all have within us.

Juanita:  Why do we have both the hero and victim within us?

Dr. Mitchell:  As I said, we are all born with all human potentiality.  In other words, all humans inherit all the human archetypes.  Two of those are the hero and victim.  I am not talking about Superman or a prisoner of war, which are culturally developed or socially described images displaying particular qualities of the hero and victim. We can – and generally do – hold personal internal images of the hero and victim as well.  Sometimes our behavior is governed by their energy and we act out of that energy, such as when someone acts selflessly to save another person from catastrophe – even though s/he may die in the process -- or when someone yields helplessly to the will of a dominating person and feels entrapped.

Juanita:   What is the specific journey of the hero?

Dr. Mitchell: That is the subject of several chapters in my book.  Briefly, it is an inner journey we all can make to discover the source of our inner conflicts.  It is a journey which takes us into the depths of ourselves where we can actually, at times, observe the hero in us encounter the “dragons” that interfere with our feeling free or good about ourselves.  Perhaps an example might help. In autumn, it was my responsibility to rake the leaves in our backyard.  Redwood bark covered part of the yard where the children’s outdoor toys were kept. One day, I returned home to discover that my wife had raked the yard, but in raking the redwood bark, she had thrown a great quantity of that bark in the trash cans along with the dead leaves. The inner victim expressed several dark feelings: “She doesn't like the way I do it,” “She thinks she’s better than I,” “I work hard, and the bark costs a lot of money. So much waste! She doesn't appreciate how hard I work,” In essence, “I’m a good boy and she’s not treating me right.” So, guided by the child, I started into the house preparing to complain at her. However, an inner guide stepped in. If you read my book, you would discover that the hero is often guided by an inner helper who usually sets the hero on his journey. This inner guide said very loudly, “You know, your wife has never purchased redwood bark.  You’ve always done it.  Also, she is more likely to have done the work because your schedule has been very full; she probably just wanted to be of help.” The inner hero was aroused, looked carefully within, and identified the reactions of the hurt victimized child. He then went inside to find inner support for the child – which obviously needed comforting -- and freed the loving man in me to speak rationally to my wife. The child was comforted, while I was now free to go to my wife and tell her how much I appreciated her taking some of the load off me and told her the probable cost of all the bark she had discarded. She thanked me and said she had no idea and would not likely do that again.

Juanita:  What is the significance of the journey of the victim?

Dr. Mitchell: It hasn’t occurred to me to consider a victim’s journey.  The victim is simply victimized.  One of the hero’s tasks is to find ways to free the victim.  Perhaps the victim’s journey can be described as what happens to the victim when s/he becomes freed.  One of the requirements for the victimized child to become freed is the discovery of the positive, supportive aspects of the inner parents.  The journey of the hero involves finding just such support for the victim, as well as fighting the so-called dragons and trolls that keep the victim victimized.  The positive aspect of the mother archetype provides nourishment to the personality for further development along with the capacity for empathy; the positive aspect of the father archetype provides behavioral guidance based on a moral foundation.  When the victimized child in us receives and absorbs these gifts, the conscious-dominating energy coming from the victim archetype diminishes.  Consequently, pain and suffering in consciousness diminishes.  Life is no longer dominated by complaining, blaming, and feelings of weakness, unworthiness, or incompetence. On the contrary, in freeing the victim, the hero also widens the channel, so to speak, that enables the hero to function more easily in us, so that we feel more competent and capable.  Incidentally, there are two tables at the end of chapter 2 in my book that define and describe what I mean by positive and negative aspects of the mother and father archetypes.

Juanita:  Your book title – “Hero or Victim?” – poses a question to the reader.  Are you suggesting we have a choice of either?  Can you explain this?

Dr. Mitchell: Indeed, one has a choice once one becomes conscious of the sources of ones behavior. Becoming conscious is the key to being able to make the choice. It is the book’s intent to bring about sufficient consciousness that one can recognize how these forces act in oneself and then make a choice.

Juanita:  In “Hero or Victim?” you cite many references to myths and fairy tales to further explain the concept of the hero and victim.  How does this bring more understanding to the reader? What do myths teach us?

Dr. Mitchell: Myths and fairy tales are allegories of the human condition and human behavior. Many myths and fairy tales, as well as current fiction, display images of the struggle between good and evil and the role played by the hero. Movies, such as Superman, Spiderman, and Star Wars are just a few of those. Hercules, Perseus, and Cadmus are examples of Greek mythological heroes.  Myths, fairy tales, and fiction are human constructions and arise out of the human imagination.  Consequently, they must represent what lies within the human mind, not only for the tales to be created, but also for the material in the stories to be understood and appreciated. In my book, I make the effort to translate the imagery into what they can mean in our daily lives. The struggle of the hero is universal.  When we realize we are not alone in having to deal with life conflicts, and when we can get a glimpse of how we can solve our problems through understanding the meaning in hero stories, there can be hope.  Real hope can lead to the willingness to recognize and give energy to the hero within.

Juanita:  What are some of the more common myths that people would relate to in their struggles with their own hero/victim?

Dr. Mitchell: The ones I mentioned just a moment ago are good examples. However, there are two primary considerations when relating myths and fairy tales to one’s personal struggles.  Firstly, the story cannot be taken literally; its contents and actions must be seen in their symbolic and allegorical relationship to one’s struggles. Secondly, to relate a specific myth or fairy tale to one’s struggles, the process represented in the story must parallel the life process with which one is dealing. For example, “Jack and the Beanstalk,” illustrates how a transformation can occur when a naïve, dependent child gives way to heroic confrontation with the archetype of the negative aspect of the father (the ogre).  As a result of that confrontation, the hero discovers feelings of self-worth (the gold stolen from the ogre). This story would apply to someone whose father either died or was absent in the life of an individual from a very early age.  When an actual father is absent, the inherent inner authority and morality, which the father archetype represents, would be either difficult to experience or overwhelming in its demands or both.  Such a person might, for example, complain that they could never get anything done, but once into a task, might be compulsively driven to perform the task with overwhelmingly intense energy and with a futile attempt at perfection. (One can almost feel the ogre in such behavior!) The hero’s journey would take that person into him/herself to discover the ogre that lives in another realm (the unconscious).  Once in contact with that ogre, one can feel the tremendous power of its insistence upon devouring the person. But Jack’s learning of the existence of the ogre brings him to the gold, which represents the gold of one’s self -- that is, the strength and worthiness of one’s self.  That leads to the possibility of becoming stronger and ultimately killing the inner ogre.  Then, Jack might marry a princess (representing the discovery of our passions) and become the next king – that is, become free to manifest one’s own effective authority.

Juanita:  How will understanding our own versions of the hero and victim help us in our day to day lives?

Dr. Mitchell: First of all, in my experience, only those who really want to improve their lives can be helped by anyone.  If one is satisfied or complacent, there is no need for help.  However, if we want to gain more insight into what motivates us and if we want to become more effective in accomplishing our goals, we can do that by learning (1) the forces in ourselves that are hindering progress and (2) how to access the strengths in us that make it possible to reach our aspirations and give expression to our highest principles. These essentially correspond to what I mean by the inner victim and hero, respectively.

Juanita:  Dr. Mitchell, do you think the victim personality is the cause unhappiness?

Dr. Mitchell: Happiness is a difficult word to define.  Some people seem content to be identified with the inner victimized child: dependent, constantly complaining and blaming others for their plight or the ills of the world.  They don't appear happy, but that’s my projection; that is, I wouldn't want to live life like that.  Yet, they don't seem to seek any other approach to life.  I can only say that, I, personally, could not tolerate living with a victim personality, as I did earlier in my life.  Ultimately, my unhappiness – my utter misery -- took me into analysis where, over many years, I discovered what I describe about the victim and hero in my book.

Juanita:  Is “Hero or Victim?” a book for any reader, or is it geared to the professional counselor?  Who did you have in mind when you wrote it, and who would benefit from reading it?

Dr. Mitchell: I wrote it essentially to document what I discovered in myself and in my observations working with people.  The book was not originally written with the idea that it would be published, even though students in my class had urged me to write it. When I finally published it, I imagined that anyone with a desire to improve the quality of his/her life should be able to understand and benefit by it.

Juanita:  You originally published your book in 1995.  Why do you think this information is still so pertinent today?

Dr. Mitchell: Human archetypes, including the hero and victim, reside within all humans at all times.  They have been there throughout human history and will be with us as long as humans exist on earth.  Therefore, the information in my book not only is pertinent today, but will continue to be far into the future. In fact, as time passes, population grows, and the world situation becomes increasingly conflictual, my book’s relevance is greater than ever.

Juanita:  Dr. Mitchell, you have more than twenty-five years experience as a clinical psychologist, President of The C. G. Jung Institute, University Professor, and lecturer.  Would you comment a little on your history?  What has influenced your strong interest in Jungian Psychology?

Dr. Mitchell: When I first read Jung, I realized that he brilliantly expressed clearly what already was familiar to me. It was as if his ideas set off sympathetic vibrations in my mind; I knew what he was saying, and his words rang true to me. My earliest reading of Jung led me into Jungian analysis, where I studied and worked hard on my own analysis for over 35 years. Even though I do not consult as an analyst at this time in my life, I still write essays, and teach classes based on the inner work I have done and continue to do. I became certified as a Jungian analyst in 1974, after 7 years of training, and had my own private practice until 2004. Until that time, I had spent my life in the Los Angeles area, but at the end of 2004, my wife and I moved to Georgetown, Texas, where we are mostly retired.  We love it here and expect to spend the rest of our lives in our current home.  As a retiree, I find myself working as hard as ever before.  Having a degree in electrical engineering as well as a Ph.D. in psychology has led me to teaching classes on computers as well as in Psychology.  In addition, I give periodic lectures, sing the in San Gabriel Chorale, participate in the project team developing our community’s local web site, and consult with people who need help in areas where I am capable.  I love every minute!

Juanita:  How can readers find out more about you and your endeavors?

Dr. Mitchell: They can visit my web site at http://www.herovictim.com to read about me and my book, find links to my essays, my piano playing, and some of my singing.  In addition, questions can be directed to my email address: meremitch@verizon.net. 

Juanita:  Thanks for taking the time to talk to us today Dr. Mitchell.  Your book “Hero or Victim?” has the potential to be a powerful catalyst of change in people’s lives. Do you have any last thoughts for your readers today?

Dr. Mitchell: I am very grateful to the many people who have given me feedback about the effects my book has had on their lives.  A very large number of people have claimed that it had a wonderfully transforming effect on their lives and continues to do so.  A few have commented that they found it difficult to understand, but that was a tiny minority.  Several people throughout the world wrote to tell me that they found the book so profoundly helpful that they purchased multiple copies to give to their friends as gifts.  Surely, that kind of appreciation is very gratifying for any author

I can't help but wish that more people would undertake the hero’s journey.  Just think of the harmony that would permeate families, communities, countries, and even the world if enough people were to discover and activate their inner hero and take the inner journey to discover and overcome what lies behind their fears, angers, inner pains, and conflicts!

Once the hero within us is activated and we learn to face and confront the inner demons behind our emotional pains, we are better able to do what is necessary to heal and alter our behavior to achieve inner peace and harmonious relationships.

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